in the very first paragraph, matthew 13:38 is to be read - "the field is the world; as for the fine seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one..".
jesus speaks of only two groups, so if you accept the wtbts "anointed" doctrine, then if you haven't got the "heavenly hope", then you've got no hope!.
simply put, there aren't any 'other sheep' members of jesus' "one flock" mentioned, unless of course theyare also "sons of the kingdom", but of course, that would be ridiculous!!.
Phizzy said - Not least "why has this only been realised now ?"
Shouldn't nearly 8 million Witnesses be saying that about the several doctrinal U-turns in the July 15th Watchtower?
I repeat what Jim Gillies (Public Information chief at London Branch) said about it; "It's a landmarkWatchtower".
The glazed looks and bewildered expressions after the study on Sunday (and that was just the elders!) spoke volumes!!
in the very first paragraph, matthew 13:38 is to be read - "the field is the world; as for the fine seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one..".
jesus speaks of only two groups, so if you accept the wtbts "anointed" doctrine, then if you haven't got the "heavenly hope", then you've got no hope!.
simply put, there aren't any 'other sheep' members of jesus' "one flock" mentioned, unless of course theyare also "sons of the kingdom", but of course, that would be ridiculous!!.
Hi Phizzy -
I was just saying to my better half a few days ago, that after the Bethel speaker referred to "the upcoming historicAnnual Meeting in October", it would not surprise me to hear that the GB have "discerned" that all dedicated, baptized publishers are part of the New Covenant, and as such, should partake of the Memorial emblems, rather than just being voyeurs at a non-event for earthly-hopers!
That would remedy the problem of the increase of partakers each year.
in the very first paragraph, matthew 13:38 is to be read - "the field is the world; as for the fine seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one..".
jesus speaks of only two groups, so if you accept the wtbts "anointed" doctrine, then if you haven't got the "heavenly hope", then you've got no hope!.
simply put, there aren't any 'other sheep' members of jesus' "one flock" mentioned, unless of course theyare also "sons of the kingdom", but of course, that would be ridiculous!!.
In the very first paragraph, Matthew 13:38 is to be read - "the field is the world; as for the fine seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one.."
Jesus speaks of only two groups, so if you accept the WTBTS "anointed" doctrine, then if you haven't got the "heavenly hope", then you've got no hope!
Simply put, there aren't any 'other sheep' members of Jesus' "one flock" mentioned, unless of course theyare also "sons of the kingdom", but of course, that would be ridiculous!!
i know there are exceptions to this (by good-hearted jws), but has anyone else noticed how some jws (even those who are pios, elders, etc.
) neglect the needs of their elderly parents?
(what i have seen is some jws hiding behind the fact that they are very busy in spiritual matters, too busy, to help their elderly parents with chores around their house, yet they find plenty of time for their own selfish pursuits.
I recently asked several fellow Witnesses what the hallmark of a true Christian was?
To save embarassing any of them who may say the wrong thing, I quickly said, "Knocking on doors to offer strangers the Watchtower & Awake? No, Jesus told us at John 13:35, that it would be if we had love amongst ourselves!"
One individual was quite insistent that it was the preaching work - so I politely repeated what Jesus had very clearly stated.
I then mentioned that it would be good if we could spend a fraction of our witnessing time, to actually visit our existing brothers!
jw's repeat mt.
24:14 like a mantra.. but who was he speaking to, us gentiles in the church age?
no, he was speaking to the jews, god's covenant people.
Christians were to be Christian Witnesses - Witnesses of Christ as the Messiah and Mediator between God & men, and to teach people everything that he had taught them!! (Matthew 28:19,20)
Matthew 10:18 - "YOU will be haled before governors and kings for my sake, for a witness to them and the nations.
Mark 13:9 - and YOU will be beaten in synagogues and be put on the stand before governors and kings for my sake, for a witness to them."
Acts 1:8 - "You will be witnesses of me;
John 1:15 - "John bore witness about him..." [JESUS]
John 5:37 - " the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me ."
John 8:18 - " the Father who sent me bears witness about me ."
John 15:26,27 - "the spirit of the truth, which proceeds from the Father, that one will bear witness about me; and YOU in turn, are to bear witness." [exactly as the spirit bore witness - about me ];
Acts 4:17,18 - Nevertheless, in order that it may not be spread abroad further among the people, let us tell them with threats not to speak anymore upon the basis of this name to any man at all. With that they called them and charged them, nowhere to make any utterance or to teach upon the basis of the name of Jesus.
Acts 10:39 - "And we are witnesses of all the things he [Jesus] did..."
Acts 10:43 - "To him [Jesus] all the prophets bear witness , that everyone putting faith in him gets forgiveness of sins through his name.
Acts 11:26 - "the disciples were by divine providence called Christians."
Acts 13:31 - "and for many days he [Jesus] became visible to those who had gone up with him from Gal´i·lee to Jerusalem, who are now his witnesses to the people.
Acts 22:15 - "because you are to be a witness for him [Jesus] to all men of things you have seen and heard."
Acts 22:20 - "and when the blood of Stephen your [Jesus'] witness was being spilled..."
Acts 23:11 - "For as you have been giving a thorough witness on the things about me in Jerusalem..."
Acts 26:16 - "For to this end I [Jesus] have made myself visible to you, in order to choose you as an attendant and a witness.......respecting me "
1 Corinthians 1:6 - "even as the witness about the Christ has been rendered firm among YOU..."
1 Tim. 2:6,7 - "who [Christ] gave himself a corresponding ransom for all —[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times. For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle..."
2 Timothy 1:8 - "Therefore do not become ashamed of the witness about our Lord.. [Christ ]"
1 John 5:9 - "the witness God gives is greater, because this is the witness God gives, the fact that he has borne witness concerning his Son ."
Revelation 1:9 - "....came to be in the isle that is called Pat´mos for speaking about God and bearing witness to Jesus ."
Revelation 12:17 - "And the dragon grew wrathful at the woman, and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her seed, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus ."
Revelation 17:6 - "And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnessesofJesus ."
Revelation 19:10 - "But he tells me: "Be careful! Do not do that! All I am is a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who have the work of witnessing to Jesus. Worship God; for the bearing witness to Jesus is what inspires prophesying."
Revelation 20:4 - "Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus."
were familiar with the statements about how a persons claim to be anointed is between that god and the individual.. the governing body went on to say: "a number of factorsincluding past religious beliefs or even mental or emotional imbalancemight cause some to assume mistakenly that they have the heavenly calling.
we thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know.
the governing body does not keep a list of all partakers, for it does not maintain a global network of anointed ones.
Wonderful double-edged reasoning!! Stored for future use - thanks!
( apologies for the large space at the top i don't quite know why .
i sat through the wt study that dealt with all the new understanding.. the conductor started by by saying .
well we wont spend too much time on what we used to believe, we will consider what we believe now.. i took a look round to see how the members of the congregation were reacting to this.. nothing.... .
KONCEPTUAL99 - This article from 1975 seems to be still clutching to the failed prediction that the Great Tribulation commenced in 1914 and was still ongoing at that time.
*** w75 5/1 pp. 275-276 pars. 16-19 Why We Have Not Been Told “That Day and Hour” *** 16 As a comparison of the Scriptures with the events of history indicates, from verse 29 in the twenty-fourth chapter of Matthew’s account down to the end of chapter 25, the events described are ones that reach their climax during the time period since 1914 C.E. Some of these events, of course, had their beginning in the first century, but the finale to which they point is in the twentieth century. This is true of what is said about “the faithful and discreet slave,” also the illustrations of the ten virgins and the talents.—Matt. 24:45-47; 25:1-30. 17 When Matthew 24:29 refers to something that takes place “after the tribulation of those days,” it is talking about events since 1914 C.E., and that is after the “great tribulation” that came upon Jerusalem in 70 C.E. It is true that, from the standpoint of man with his short lifespan, events of our day might not be viewed as coming “immediately after” what took place in 70 C.E. But God, for whom a thousand years are “but as yesterday when it is past,” sees matters differently.—Ps. 90:4; compare “shortly” in Revelation 1:1. 18 Since 1914 C.E. it has taken place, just as foretold: “The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.” Starting with the outbreak of World War I, mankind entered a gloomy period, indeed. There was no light for the future from the sources to which man was accustomed to look. It was also true that, historically, the literal heavens were viewed as the domain of the birds. But early in the twentieth century man succeeded in flying an airplane, which soon was employed for purposes of war. This led to development of death-dealing rockets, also to space probes that carried men to the moon, with the result that it came to be viewed as a potential military base for control of the earth. During this same time, what was being learned about the bombarding of the earth by cosmic rays from the sun and the stars added to man’s fears. Not because the heavens themselves had changed, but as a result of what man himself was doing and because of his increased knowledge of extraterrestrial forces that he could not control, the physical heavens have come to have a foreboding appearance to many people in this generation.—Matt. 24:29; Mark 13:24, 25. 19 All of this is leading up to the end of this system of things, to the time when, as Matthew 24:30 says, “the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation.” That time is now very near!
i don't get why they opened the article 'when will these things be' by using old old light not believed since the late 60's?
.
seems a bit idiotic to draw attention to past mistakes that are long forgotten in the minds of the r&f, as opposed to stuff that is fairly recent that has warranted 're-examination'.
They're just using a bit of psychology - show "humility" by admitting that we got some things wrong in the past, but now we've "discerned" the real truth about the subject, everyone will trust us because of our honesty!!
It certainly worked with one elder in our congregation, because that is virtually how he answered after I'd commented about the several reversals of teachings which we'd have to study.
The brutal truth remains - if you question any of these teachings, you will viewed and treated as a potential apostate; if you challenge any teachings, you will be procedurally "put to death" by the Enforcers, or as they better known by their cuddly names, Elders/Hiding Places From the Wind/Princes/Glorious Ones.
hi folks, good morning.
finally, we have studied wt july 15, 2013 study article this morning as a congregation.
while the wt is so certain that the signal of the start of the great tribulationis the attack of the un against false religion, i could not help but to ask the following:.
Just a couple of Scriptures to consider when discussing the GT.
(1 Peter 4:17) For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the end be of those who are not obedient to the good news of God?
(Revelation 2:22) Look! I am about to throw her into a sickbed, and those committing adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent....
hello all,.
.
are there any suggested comments to give in the wt study today that wont give away that i know ttatt, but will open the eyes of other jws?.
I answered for paragraph 1 - "The GB has highlighted several reversals of teachings in these articles which we really must study and meditate on if we are to keep up with the teachings of the Organization."
Kept my mouth shut for the rest of the study!! Enjoy listening to the squirming and contradictory answers!!
